rock music or the lack of it in welsh music

[dave martin]

i went through the music page on this venerable site what a load of c.... , just because you can sing in welsh does not give you the right to crowed the airwaves with half assed dreck check out levon helms dirt farmer about dirt famers / coal miners in west virginia

[Gareth Williams]

The link's broken for your Lisa Gwilym's link as I tried it, so thought I'd bring an update back with me hope it's of same linkage you had.
Lisa Gwilym's programme link

[Ceri Shaw]

Thanks for the update Gareth. You're up early over there.

[Ceri Shaw]

Thanks for the list Chris. Personally I like most of them. I guess the pages Dave is referring to are here:-

http://americymru.ning.com/group/welshmusic

and here:-

http://americymru.ning.com/forum/topics/top-ten-welsh-albums-of-2008

[dave martin]

you left out the late great mickey gee he passed last week , a guest on many albums and often found sitting in with many bands around the cardiff pubs

[gaabi]

Manic Street Preacher's "Ocean Spray" just absolutely lays me out every time. I suppose this was really overplayed on the radio in the UK and everyone there is sick to death of it but I love it:

[Fionnchú]

Blerwytirhwng: The Place of Welsh Pop Music by Sarah Hill & my musings/review(s)..

This is a pricy academic study by a scholar at Cardiff U (I think she may even be American-born from Oakland and a learner of Welsh!), Sarah Hill. Rather theoretical in parts, but informative. Only trouble: little insight into how this music sounds: is it merely British/American Anglo-sounds with Welsh lyrics, or is there an inherent difference? That relates to the comments below about Christian rock vs. "regular" rock, by the way-- are you changing the essence or only the surface if you sing in Cymraeg?

Hill also includes the (I wonder if apocryphal as I am no Zep expert) tale of how supposedly two members of the band were approached. They were hanging out admiringly if on the fringes at a Welsh-language music festival and asked if they'd want to jam. No one recognized them.

You can always get "Blerwytirhwng" as I did from interlibrary loan. There's only two votes on my review from last year of her book; the negative one may be from her (I often suspect this as a prolific reviewer of rather esoteric works on Amazon!) as I "only" gave it four/five stars. Worth a look by anyone seriously interested in the genre; listening to GZM & Euros Childs & Big Leaves (not on the discussion so far) & SFA-- not to mention the "Welsh Rare Beat" Sain compilations co-coordinated by Gruff Rhys-- got me interested in finding out much more about Wales & Cymraeg.

By the way, as a learner of Irish over the long years, it's intriguing why Gaeilge lacks rockers compared to English-language Irish bands. The whole scene in Welsh in Wales has no real parallel among the Gaeilgeori across the sea. This presence in Welsh of a vibrant cultural and musical and linguistic counterpart and contrast with Irish led me lately to find and join Americymru! Maybe one day I can pick out more than a few geriadau from the exchange between CMD & AL in Welsh below.

I also posted the past couple of years on Amazon and my blog at various reviews (find under keywords like "Welsh rock music"), for instance, of the WRB comps and just the other day my review of Euros Childs' newest, "Cheer Gone." I tracked this down on import as I wanted it despite a depleted budget. A bit too Americana, as it's recorded barebones in Nashville, but there's some strong songs. Reminiscent of an acoustic Lambchop with a better singer? I like Childs best when as on "Bore Da" he sings in Cymraeg, however. While his music's certainly less lysergic and more stripped down than it used to be, I find his voice alluring. A skilled interpreter in both languages, deserving much more attention. I miss GZM and wish they'd issued the expanded CDs of their first three CDs; rumor from my friends in England has it these were never put out by Castle Communications as planned. Any info on this GZM mystery much welcomed. Hwyl pob ichi...

Blerwytirhwng: The Place of Welsh Pop Music by Sarah Hill: My revie... [it's also up at their British site].

[Fionnchú]

Errr- I'm wrong, you're right. I had meant only Big Leaves not being mentioned; I must have been scanning the left list and not seen your parenthetical inclusion. A rare admission of fault on my part I assure you! In recompense, one addition for each facet of your musical triad:

Singing in Welsh (at least at their start, a common tendency of many bands on Ankst?): Ectogram. In English: Young Marble Giants. Musician: a dodgy one, but while he grew up in Tamworth, Staffs., Julian Cope was born in Deri, Mid-Glamorgan.

[maeyc hewitt]

I may not have grasped the tilt of this discussion but I'll stick my tuppenyworth in anyway.
The Welsh language is a bit of a millstone for the Welsh musician - I am born and bred here but I don't speak the language. I feel that the minority of Welsh speakers, at least here in the north, have some sort of superiority (inferiority ) complex and regard non Welsh speakers (native or not ) as somehow beneath them. The fact that they have appropriated a specifically English speaking musical form i.e. rock and roll and shoehorned their very un-R&R language into it seems bypassed their irony chip.
I draw attention to the undeliably great Datblygu, who were the first Welsh group that made me prick up my ears and listen because they appeared to me to be attempting a genuine contemporary Welsh musical outlook. I still have very little idea of what they were singing about but it doesn't really matter. Something about the vocal delivery transcends language and I can "understand" where they are coming from. I remember John Peel being quite taken with them and they made several sessions for his radio programme. Datblygu's take was similar to the Krautrock groups of the '70's who wanted to take the radical essence of American rock and make it their own, which they did.
The problem with "Welsh music" as I see it is that the language takes precedence over the music. If they sing the phone book in Welsh then that is better than, say, John Cale. The Welsh music scene is a cultural cul-de-sac with very few exceptions. This is not for want of people trying but coming up against the ultra conservative establishment does little other than put genuine avant travellers off to seek richer pastures in the English speaking world.
That is why a lot of Welsh stop singing in Welsh.

[Shannon Westover]

what?

you like levon helm? i suppose the band were ok

[dave martin]

dont take my word find a copy of the basement tapes , at the time eric clapton was trying to join the band , so what is no better than ok ? great songwriters in their own right , brilliant musicians , oh they dont speak or sing in welsh?

[dave martin]

having reread the other answers and taking del shannons remarks and realy reading fionnchu,s remarks i put forward this proposition there aint no welsh rock never was, never will be , if rock is taken as a art form , third and fourth generations are just that ,mimics , its the same as dixie land jass ( correct spelling for here orleans ) rock filterd through the air waves via the us armed services network , the super furry maniacs never went the other way , they aint the true stuff so they will never filter through the airwaves across the world because they dont have nothing to say thats new , its the same old stuff sorry fans , as pete townsend said rock does not stand up to examanation , its here now and gone a hour later , now should a BAND come along and capture the welshness of the valleys that has now long passed, its only doing what the band done for americana in the 60,s and 70,s its second hand stuff , so its not a art form its done before , is welsh rock and roll was a still born child before it was born , so what really is welsh music? choir boyo, male voice the sound of the lads coming out of the mines , oops thats gone , is the welsh male voice choir lost like the blues , yup welsh music, real music of the people not the new welshness from the west wales or the cripples of mid and north wales , is a lost art form a bunch of middle class art students singing lame songs is not a art form

[dave martin]

second wind (three beers) cor my spelling and and lack of command of our speach is bad , but before any bodys said it no the MAN band was not great , their two hour sets were a real bummer, they were not the welsh quicksilver messenger service , maybe the disservice , they were boring beyond boring , if you wore a greatcoat and took mandies they made sense , maybe and thats a strech, the high point of their career was to get the san fransico artist rick griffin to do them a album cover , another quote was budgie was a inspiration to metalica that says nothing , no even more than nothing , in fact i knew mewtalica wete stoopid but never knew they were that stoopid















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